Estas foram as palavras lidas ao povo numa missa com o povo antes do sepultamento de Dom Paulo Evaristo Arns,na sexta-feira, na Catedral de São Paulo.
Categoria: Espiritualidade
Leonardo Boff | Francis of Rome; Francis of Assisi
Interview with Leonardo Boff
Author of Francis of Rome, Francis of Assisi:
A New Springtime for the Church (Maryknoll: Orbis Books, 2014).
Interview by Jonathan J. Armstrong
Interview received on: September 12, 2016
Translation from Spanish into English by Jonathan Salas, Catherine Christian, and Haley O’Neal.
To download a PDF version of this interview, please click here.
Jonathan J. Armstrong: In the chapter titled “Can We Save the Catholic Church?”, you allude to the many sexual and financial scandals that have plagued the institutional Roman Catholic Church in the past decades. You conclude this chapter: “But the church can be saved as long as it is inspired by the tradition of Jesus, returns to drink from the well of the gospel, sets out to serve the world rather than itself, and puts the poor at the center in a quest for liberation and social justice. Then it is good not only for Christians but for the whole world. It is a force for humanization and peace among peoples” (p. 25). When you express hope that the church can be saved, you seem to be writing about the institutional church. But, isn’t institution necessarily resistant to the “tradition of Jesus”? Is it reasonable to ask an institution to “set out to serve the world rather than itself?”
Leonardo Boff: We have to make a distinction between the church as a community of faith―the people of God―and a group of leaders who are the ecclesiastical authority. In the organization of the church, the authority is concentrated in the hands of a few. The church is commonly talked about as a hierarchal body. However, this common understanding is not true. The hierarchal body, which is part of the institution of the church, has the responsibility to lead the community, or the people of God, in the faith. The body of leaders, however, are disconnected from the community of faith, which is a big problem. I believe that this is not the way Jesus would act. Jesus wanted hierodulia, sacred service, instead of hierarchy, which is sacred authority. Unfortunately, the hierarchy is not practicing love and mercy; they are rude, legalistic, and arrogant, and because of this they are distanced from the community of faith. This type of organization has always created conflicts throughout history between the body of people and the hierarchal leaders.
The problem is that the hierarchal leaders exclude and condemn the people. This current type of organization serves themselves before serving the people of God and the world. I don’t see how we can save the church as an entity. The church has to go back to the practice of humility like Jesus and the apostles, where the priority is to first serve the community of faith and then the body of leaders. It is in this way that Vatican Council II, in Lumen Gentium, is serving the community of faith before the hierarchal leaders. For example, in his first public appearance, Pope Francis cared more about the approval and blessing of the people of God rather than that of the hierarchal leaders.
Jonathan J. Armstrong: You write of the pope’s humility and simplicity: “It would not be surprising if one day, as John Paul II wanted, the pope should decide to abandon the Vatican and go off and live in a modest lodging, with plenty of outside space to receive visits from the faithful. The times are ripe for this type of revolution in papal customs” (p. 49). You also write: “It is not unthinkable that representatives of the people of God, from cardinals to women, should be invited to elect a pope for the whole Christian world. It is urgent to reform the curia so that it becomes decentralized. Surely Pope Francis will do this” (p. 52). It is now the third year that Pope Francis I has held office; do you see from Pope Francis I the kind of radical action that had you hoped for when you first published this book?
Leonardo Boff: I suggested to Don Helder Camara, the bishop prophet of Brazil and very close friend of Pope Paul VI, that the pope should leave the Pontifical Palace and live away in the outskirts of Rome, in the “borgattas” near the poor. There he could receive the faithful in Christ and not refuse anyone. The Pope was sad and said that he would want that but the Curia and all of the apparatus of the Vatican opposed it strongly. The popes before Pope Francis had a way of living which looked more like Caesar’s lavish palace rather than the humble scene of the nativity. But Francis has made the first step. He actually left the Pontifical Palace and went to live in Santa Marta, a hotel attached to the Vatican. There he lives like the others do. He eats together with the others, and even gets in line to get his plate of food. He comments with humor: “Here is very difficult to have me poisoned.”
I think that the church needs to change several things: it should not follow Western church practices, pagan practices, and should get rid of the symbols that have been influenced by the Roman emperors.
Pope Francis acted symbolically. He took the mozetta, a cloak worn over the shoulders which demonstrates the authority of the Roman emperor, and handed it over to the secretary. He said that this symbol of power was not necessary. He wanted to lead the church not with power of the law but with the gentle power of love. As a result, he preferred to be called the bishop of Rome, and only after that he would accept to be the pope of the universal church, which is collegially directed along with a few cardinals. These are some of the changes in the way that the pope’s ministry is being understood. Pope Francis also proposed a reform of the curia so that it would be decentralized. He wanted to put individuals in the curia positions who would represent the whole church, such as woman and notable laity. He has promised this. However, we know that one finds terrible oppositions within the body of the curia because of the habits and privileges they have had for more than a thousand years. In this case, one does not do what one wants to do but one does what one is allowed to do. I desire that Pope Francis will take on this difficult work of reforming the management structures of the Universal Church. For now, though, he focuses on the central issue at hand, which is the basis of all the other projects: to ensure a future for humanity and the earth, which is being seriously threatened. For the systematic crisis right now is the ecological crisis. He wrote the encyclical letter, On Care of Our Common Home.
Jonathan J. Armstrong: Please expand on your chapter “What Has Pope Francis Brought Us That Is New?” (pp. 87–89). If you were writing this chapter today, are there additional accomplishments that you would mention?
Leonardo Boff: What is new about Pope Francis compared to the popes prior to him? His practices and acts are revolutionary. First, he doesn’t think of himself as a doctor of faith but as a pastor who encourages the Christian community to produce an attractive message. His focus is on encountering the Lord and meeting with all people despite their backgrounds. In light of this, he receives everyone: Muslims, refugees, atheists, and everyone else who comes to him. He insists that pastors, bishops, and priests must have a revolution of tender compassion and mercy.
He says what many theologians have been thinking: the message of condemnation will not last forever. We should stop using the message of the fear of hell to win people. Rather, we should encourage them by using the beautiful message of love, compassion and mercy, which is a more attractive message than one of hellfire and damnation. Maybe the difference between Francis and the other popes is that he does not simply speak about the poor, but he embraces them and defends their rights. Francis is the only pope that has directly condemned the system of anti-life. He is impartial, one-sided, and on the side of the poor. Never in the history of the papacy has a pope ever insisted on social programs that analyze the causes of exploitation and denounce the factors responsible for the misery in the world. He has done the same while visiting Santa Cruz, Bolivia in Latin America, the city where representatives of the social movements in all Latin America were gathered. The pope has become a worldwide example of humility and courage through ethical and humanitarian movements. Everyone listens to the pope because he has a message for humankind and not only for Christians. The pope represents the movement of a church that practices humility, fellowship, sympathy, compassion, a culture of peace, and dialogue.
Jonathan J. Armstrong: You write: “The church, as we have it today, will never be like the poor, but it can be for and with the poor” (p. 75). Please explain in detail.
Leonardo Boff: The church has had a history of taking care of the poor, following the practical example of Jesus and the apostles. The church used the strategy of assisting the poor like a father would. While they helped the poor, they never explained the reason for poverty, nor how to overcome it. The church in Latin America, in their documents of Medellin and Puebla, assumed a different position. This position is to work and live with the poor, thus participating in their way of life, culture, and ways to pray to God. This act of sympathy acknowledges that although they lack material things, they possess much else. They have a culture, they have faith, and they have knowledge on know how to survive in the midst of poverty.
Jonathan J. Armstrong: Throughout your book, you use the phrase the “tradition of Jesus,” dedicating a chapter to the exposition of this principle (“The Tradition of Jesus and the Christian Religion,” pp. 114–117). There, you describe the “tradition of Jesus” as composed of certain values, such as unconditional love for others and the use of power in the service of the community. In your view, does the tradition of Jesus have a doctrinal content? If so, what are the precise bounds of this doctrinal content?
Leonardo Boff: The expression “tradition of Jesus” is a recent issue of the new Christology that is being established in Spain with Pagola and Castillo and in Latin America with various authorities like Jose Comblin, Carlos Mesters, and others. This expression presupposes all of the meticulous work of contemporary and ecumenical exegesis.
It gives insight that what we know about Jesus is from sources written 40–50 years after the crucifixion. Jesus left nothing written. Many people of the ancient world, including people among the Jews, were illiterate.
During the time of silence between the death of Jesus and the New Testament writings―beginning with Apostle Paul and the rest of the Gospels―the information was gathered from different Christian communities. Each of the writers elaborated about his vision of Jesus. Thus arose the four gospels. But before all is the practice of Jesus, his way of relating with God as his Father, his perception of being Son of the Father, his conflicts with the religious traditions of the time and his resistance to the imperial power of Rome. Jesus said that the kingdom of God is greater than the kingdom of Caesar, something that would be a crime against the majesty.
The book of Acts speaks of “the way of Jesus”, that is to say, to live according to the standards of the Kingdom of God, of unconditional love even of enemies, of love for the poor, of compassion with those that suffer, humility, and service to others. Jesus did not create a new religion just because there were many at that time. Jesus taught us to live the values of the Kingdom, live in love, in unity and committed to the Father.
Jesus’ teachings are more than doctrines but are a way of life. They obviously imply a vision of things, but the important thing is to follow the way and manner of the life of Jesus. This is the tradition of Jesus, an original and primitive element that precedes the Gospels and where these writers take their theological elaborations. The Gospels are more than history; they are theology, an attempt to understand what happened to Jesus after being crucified; God raised him. They gave him a thousand titles. At the end they stated: Jesus is God, he is not simply human. They started to call him the son of God and finally God incarnate in our misery.
Jonathan J. Armstrong: Do you believe that Pope Francis I will call an ecumenical council? If such a council were to be convened, what do you see as the most pressing matters requiring resolution?
Leonardo Boff: I don’t think that the Pope is going to convene a council. I personally talked with the Pope and suggested having a council with all the churches. His response to me was that a council is a Catholic thing. It is necessary to have an assembly of all the churches, religions, and spiritual people in order to help humanity find a resolution to the systemic crisis we live in, and find another way to live together. The primary problem does not revolve around the future of the Catholic church and Christianity, or western culture. Rather, it is about the future of humankind, and how the churches and religions should help guarantee a better future with hope. This is the primary question to be asked. We are not sure that doing what we are doing right now will answer this question. For this reason, the pope does not emphasize the role of the church but rather the condition and suffering of the poor. According to my judgment, this is the vision that the pope has. He confessed that nobody knows where we are going, not even the Dalai Lama or the pope. All together, we must find a common way that will save us all. This time Noah’s ark is not there to save us from death. We have two options, either we will die together or we will be saved together. The papal encyclical calls for a collective responsibility, for a great hope because, “God is the sovereign lover of life” (Wisdom 11:24, quoted three times by the Pope), and he will not permit a tragic end of life like the time of Noah.
Cardenal Paulo Evaristo Arns: maestro, intelectual refinado, amigo de los pobres
He perdido un maestro, un mecenas, un protector y un amigo entrañable. Cosas importantes van a ser dichas y escritas sobre el cardenal Paulo Evaristo Arns, que murió hoy, 14 de diciembre de 2016. No voy a decir nada. Sólo daré mi testimonio personal.
Lo conocí a finales de los años 50 del siglo pasado, en la ciudad de Agudos, São Paulo, cuando yo era seminarista. Volvía de París con el prestigio de ser doctor por la Sorbona. En el seminario, con cerca de 300 estudiantes, introdujo nuevos métodos de enseñanza. Nos hizo estudiar literatura griega y latina, idiomas que dominaba como dominamos la lengua materna. Nos hizo leer las tragedias de Sófocles y Eurípides en griego. Sabíamos tanto griego que hasta representábamos la Antígona en ese idioma, y todos entendíamos.
Después vine a conocerlo de nuevo en Petrópolis como profesor de Patrística y de la historia cristiana de los primeros dos primeros siglos. Nos obligaba a leer a los clásicos en su idioma original: san Jerónimo, su favorito, en latín, y san Juan Crisóstomo, en griego.
Cuando le visité hace dos años en el convento de religiosas en las afueras de Sao Paulo lo encontré leyendo sermones en griego de san Juan Crisóstomo.
Fue nuestro maestro de estudiantes a lo largo de los estudios de teología en Petrópolis, de 1961 a 1965. Acompañaba con interés a cada uno en sus búsquedas, con una mirada profunda que parecía llegar hasta el fondo del alma. Era alguien que siempre buscó la perfección. Incluso, entre nosotros los estudiantes, disputábamos para ver quién encontraba algún defecto en su vida y actividad. Cantaba maravillosamente el canto gregoriano al estilo de Solesmes, más delicado que el duro de Beuron, que había predominado hasta que llegó él.
Durante cuatro años lo acompañé en la pastoral de la periferia. Los jueves por la tarde, el sábado por la tarde y los domingos todo el día, lo acompañé en la capilla del barrio de Itamaraty, en Petrópolis. Visitaba todas las casas, especialmente las familias portuguesas que cultivaban flores y horticultura. Donde llegaba, enseguida fundaba una escuela. Estimulaba el trabajo de los poetas y escritores locales. Después de la misa de las 10, los reunía en la sacristía para escuchar los poemas y cuentos que habían elaborado durante la semana. Estimulaba intelectualmente a todos a leer, escribir y narrar para otros las historias que leían.
Fue un intelectual refinado, conocedor profundo de la literatura francesa. Escribió 49 libros. Nos instó a seguir el ejemplo de Paul Claudel, que acostumbraba a escribir todos los días al menos una página. Seguí su consejo, y hoy ya he pasado de cien libros.
Lo que siempre me impresionó en él fue su amor y su afecto franciscano por los pobres. Hecho obispo auxiliar de São Paulo, inmediatamente se ocupó de las periferias de la ciudad, fomentando las comunidades eclesiales de base y comprometiendo personalmente a Paulo Freire. Como era el tiempo de la dictadura brasileña, especialmente férrea en São Paulo, asumió enseguida la causa de los refugiados venidos del horror de las dictaduras de Argentina, Uruguay y Chile. Su misión especial fue visitar las prisiones, ver las heridas de las torturas, denunciarlas con coraje y defender los derechos humanos salvajemente violados. Corrió riesgos de su vida con amenazas y atentados. Pero como franciscano, siempre mantuvo la serenidad como quien está en la palma de la mano de Dios y no en las garras de la represión policial.
Quizás su mayor logro fue el Proyecto Brasil: Nunca más, desarrollado por él, el rabino Henry Sobel y el pastor presbiteriano Jaime Wright, con todo un equipo de investigadores. Fueron sistematizadas informaciones de más de 1.000.000 de páginas contenidas en 707 procesos del Tribunal Superior Militar. El libro, publicado por la Editora Vozes, Brasil Nunca Más, jugó un papel clave en la identificación y comunicación de los torturadores del régimen militar y aceleró la caída de la dictadura.
Yo personalmente, le estoy profundamente agradecido por haberme acompañado en el proceso doctrinal realizado en mi contra por el ex Santo Oficio, en 1982, en Roma, bajo el presidencia del entonces cardenal Joseph Ratzinger. En el diálogo que siguió a mi interrogatorio, entre el cardenal Ratzinger, el cardenal Lorscheider y el cardenal Arns, en el que yo también participé, valientemente dejó claro al cardenal Ratzinger: «Ese documento que usted publicó hace una semana sobre la Teología de la Liberación no corresponde a los hechos, hechos que conocemos bien; esta teología es buena para los fieles y para las comunidades; usted ha asumido la visión de los enemigos de esta teología, que son los militares latinoamericanos y los grupos conservadores del episcopado, insatisfechos con los cambios en pastoral y en los modos de vivir la fe que este tipo de teología implica». Y añadió: «Espero de usted un nuevo documento, positivo ahora, que reconozca esta forma de hacer teología a partir del sufrimiento de los pobres y en función de su liberación». Y así fue, tres años más tarde.
Todo esto ya es pasado. Queda la memoria de un cardenal que siempre estuvo al lado de los pobres y nunca dejó que fuese ignorado el grito del oprimido por sus derechos violados. Él es una referencia perenne al Buen Pastor que da su vida por los pequeños y los más sufridos de este mundo.
Página de Boff en Koinonía
Dom Paulo Evaristo Arns: mestre, intelectual refinado e amigo dos pobres
Perdi um mestre, um mecenas, um protetor e um amigo entranhável. Coisas importantes vão ser ditas e escritas sobre o Cardeal Dom Paulo Evaristo Arns, falecido hoje, dia 14 de dezembro. Não direi nada. Apenas dou meu testemunho.
Conheci-o no final dos anos 50 do século passado em Agudos-SP quando ainda era seminarista. Voltou de Paris com fama de ser doutor pela Sorbone. No seminário com cerca de 300 estudantes introduziu metodologias pedagógicas novas. Fez-nos conhecer a literature grega e latina, linguas que dominava como dominamos o verenáculo. Fez-nos ler as tragédias de Sófocles e de Eurípedes em grego. Sabíamos tanto grego que até representamos a Antígona em grego. E todos entendiam.
Depois vim a conhecê-lo em Petrópolis como professor dos Padres da Igreja e da história cristã dos dois primeiros séculos. Obrigava-nos a ler os clássicos em suas linguas originais, São Jerônimo, seu preferido, em latim e São João Crisóstomo, em grego.
Quando o visitei há dois anos no convento de religiosas na periferia de São Paulo o encontrei lendo sermões em grego de São João Crisóstomo.
Foi nosso Mestre de estudantes durante todo o tempo da teologia em Petrópolis de 1961-1965. Acompanha com zelo cada um em suas buscas, com um olhar profundo que parecia ir ao fundo da alma. Era alguém que sempre procurou a perfeição. Até entre nós estudantes disputávamos para ver quem encontrava algum defeito em sua vida e atividade. Cantava maravilhosamente o canto gregoriano no estilo de Solemnes, mais suave do que o duro de Beuron que predominava até a chegada dele.
Durante quatro anos o acompanhei na pastoral da periferia. Nas quintas-feiras à tarde, no sábado à tarde e no domingo todo, acompanhei-o na capela do bairro Itamarati em Petrópolis. Visitava casa por casa, especialmente as famílias portuguesas que cultivavam flores e horticutura. Onde chegava logo fundava uma escola. Estimulava os poetas e escritores locais. Depois da missa das 10.00 os reunia na sacristia para ouvir os poemas e os contos que haviam produzido durante a semana. Estimulava intelectualmente a todos a lerem, escreverem e a narrarem para os outros as histórias que liam.
Era um intelectual refinado, conhecedor profundo da literatura francesa. Escreveu 49 livros. Instigava-nos a seguir o exemplo de Paul Claudel que costumava cada dia a escrever pelo menos uma página. Eu segui seu conselho e hoje já passei dos cem livros.
O que sempre me impressinou nele foi seu amor e seu afeto franciscano pelos pobres. Feito bispo auxiliar de São Paulo ocupou-se logo com as periferias, fomentando as comunidades eclesiais de base e empenhando pessoalmente Paulo Freire. Como era tempo da ditadura, especialmente férrea em São Paulo, logo assumiu a causa dos refugiados vindo do horror das ditaduras da Argentina, do Uruguai e do Chile. Sua missão especial foi visitar as prisões, ver as chagas das torturas, denunciá-las com coragem e defender os direitos humanos violados barbaramente. Correu riscos de vida com ameaças e atentados. Mas como franciscano, sempre mantinha a serenidade como quem está na palma da mão de Deus e não nas garras dos policiais da repressão.
Talvez seu feito maior foi O Projeto Brasil: Nunca Mais desenvolvido por ele, pelo Rabino Henry Sobel e pelo Pastor presbiteriano Jaime Wright com toda uma equipe de pesquisadores. Foram sistematizadas informações de mais de 1.000.000 de páginas contidas em 707 processos do Superior Tribunal Militar. O livro publicado pela Editora Vozes “Brasil Nunca Mais” teve papel fundamental na identificação e denúncia dos torturadores do regime militar e acelerou a queda da ditadura.
Eu pessoalmente sou-lhe profundamente grato por me ter acompanhado no processo doutrinário movido contra mim pelo ex-Santo Ofício em 1982 em Roma sob a presdência do então Card. Joseph Ratzinger. No diálogo que se seguiu ao meu interrogatório entre o Card. Ratzinger, o Card. Lorscheider, o Card. Arns com a minha participação, ele corajosamente deixou claro ao Card. Ratzinger:”esse documento que o Sr. publicou há uma semana sobre a Teologia da Libertação não corresponde aos fatos que nós bem conhecemos; essa teologia é boa para os fiéis e para as comunidades; o Sr. assumiu a versão dos inimigos desta teologia que são os militares latino-americanos e os grupos conservadores do episcopado, insatisfeitos com as mudanças na pastoral e nos modos de viver a fé que este tipo de teologia implica” E continuous: “cobro do Sr. um novo documento, este positivo, que valide esta forma de fazer teologia a partir do sofrimento dos pobres e em função de sua libertação”. E assim ocorreu, três anos após.
Tudo isso já passou. Fica a memória de um cardeal que sempre esteve do lado dos pobres e que jamais deixou que o grito do oprimido por seus direitos violados ficasse sem ser ouvido. Ele é uma referência perene do bom pastor que dá sua vida pelos pequenos e sofredores deste mundo.
Leonardo Boff é teólogo e foi aluno do Card. Dom Paulo Evaristo Arns.
Leonardo Boff 